Youngster in need of some help!

[jawskk]

Hi everyone,

Im Mike and im currently 16 and have been interested in aviation for years ever since I was told about my Grandfather who worked on the Lancaster's and being introduced to the air cadets. Its grown over the years into a passion in which my life evolves around now. My next step into aviation is hopefully getting a licence of some form, and then if im lucky getting onto a scheme to get me to my goal of a commercial Pilot. British airways currently is running one of these, but is soon to end unfortunately.

My plans are at the moment is to try and get a licence to get me airborne before I can learn to drive a car. This has always been my goal and I wish to stick with it. But im indecisive on whether I should do my NPPL or My full JAR PPL? I was looking at the NPPL as it seems I could get my full licence if I do it in the minimum hours ( which I hear is unlikely) for £2650 at my local airfield compared to my PPL which is £ 8603 which is the minimum? I would preferably like my full PPL as i think this would really benefit me in getting a job in aviation, and plus it allows me to fly any aircraft I wish, within reason. Im sure there are hundreds of threads already opened on this topic as I have tryed to read as many of them as I could, so sorry if this is a common topic. Could anyone enlighten me on this, and what the majority would suggest?

My other question is also im guessing a very hot topic. This is finance. I chose the provisional NPPL to start with, as it meant I could complete it within a year ( I turn 17, next November) as work and pocket money will help. But my predictions are that if I spend every last penny I get, I will still only have £2000 which wouldn't get me anywhere near the sum I would need for a PPL. I guess my question is, are there any schemes out there for youngsters and if anyone in my situation had any solutions, or do I have to except the fact that flying is only for the working, and not for the students on a part time job?

Thanks alot

Kind regards
Mike

[low&slow]

Hello Mike,

Here's Flyer's handy GA scholarships guide.

I'm very surprised by the price difference you mention between the NPPL & PPL courses. You would normally do an NPPL in pretty much the same aircraft, with the same instructors & paying the same hourly rate; the only advantages are potentially fewer training hours to pay for & a slightly easier/cheaper medical. You might want to check that the cheap price isn't for an SLMG or microlight licence.

I have no experience of commercial training but my understanding of the airline cadet schemes is that your personal qualities are more important to the recruiters than any aviation experience. So a micro or gliding qualification might be just as relevant as a PPL.

JAR/JAA has now been replaced by EASA who have their own version of the NPPL, the LAPL. An NPPL can be converted to an LAPL any time before 8 April 2015, (except for the microlight licence - EASA does not regulate microlight flying.) It is perfectly possible to get a cheap licence now & add ratings & qualifications to it all the way up to an ATPL licence.

If you can get an NPPL now for less than 1/3rd of a PPL, I would go for it. Just be aware that unless you can persuade an airline to pay for your training, any money you save now will have to be spent later if you want to go commercial.

[weirdfish]

Also, not trying to urinate on your bonfire, but please be aware of the hidden costs. Not knowing where you are planning to learn but landing fees are a prime example of this.

There are various bits of kit you are going to need and everything seems to have a if you can afford to learn to fly you can pay premium prices tax

[Keef]

I would be wary of that price differential between NPPL and PPL. Something is missing in those numbers.

You aren't going to do an NPPL in many fewer hours than a full PPL. There are those who take more hours to do NPPL than others take for PPL.

[jawskk]

Hi,

Thanks for the replys all if you don't mind, im going to give you the links to my airfields that I have in mind. If you so happen to stumble across the airfield and feel offended how I have displayed the prices, i apologise in advance. Anyone from Fenland airfield, if you want to PM me your name, you might know me as i have been a social member of your club for 3 years and used to spend alot of my time in the tower.

Anyway, back on track, I was doing some research aswell today and it priddy much confirmed what all of you have said. Which then throws me into a dilemma!? What do I do. I was told and found a few things about i could do my NPPL for alot cheaper, but now i can't... so im wondering where i got that false information/ my thoughts from?

Could anyone please sum the fees up on average so i can then set myself a realistic goal?

Others fee's as someone else mentioned is obviously a factor. Im hoping to get a share into either an aircraft like a foxbat or c42, or if i do, do my PPL then a Cessna 152 or 172? These tend to be the most common and cheapest around my area. Then the landing fee's will be covered either by having a full membership at Fenland, which i believe gives me free landing fee's... and then paying for the odd trip were i wish to land at another airfield. Im priddy much doing this to gain as many hours as possible, and for pleasure.

The scheme im looking at is the BA scholarship which ends Thursday, but i was told that they hope to redo it every couple of years, so i will have to wait my time.

Here are the links to the sites where i would like to train, and the pricings...

NPPL ( i think this is the NPPL) the sum i wrote was a rough estimate i was given, and now after a longer thought, i predict it to be more towards £3500

http://www.pegasusflighttraining.co.uk/

This is the Fenland training, for the PPL....

http://www.fenland-flying-school.co.uk/home.htm


Thanks alot, and sorry for the long replys

Mike

[leiafee]

Try http://www.yesflyers.org.uk for another source of info - some good links there and great for networking. I help out with them and getting young people flying and into related career is pretty much our raisin d'etre!

As well as the bursaries a lot of GA organisation offer free or discounted membership for young people so check those out too. AOPA for one.

A lot of the burasries are going to be looking at how much you've done off your own bat too - they're not jsut handouts, as I'm sure you're aware. The fact you're holding down a part time job to pay for some of your flying will count in your favour so I'd say do as much as you can afford even if you know it won't be enough to get you 'all the way'. Proves comittment.

Most of the youngsters I work with of your age have NEVER held down a part time job - already you're in a stronger position and oroving something about those 'personal qualities' you mention.

Another way of showing them is voluntary work of course - Cadets is a great way in - especially if you stick with it and can demonstrate you're supporting younger cadets and showing leadership.

Another reason I mention YES - we always need helpers! See what's going on in your area. We get great support from BA among other big players - it's all more contacts. Our next major event is at Brooklands museum next April and there'll be a ton of organisations who help young people into flying careers there.

I'd also recommend being active and visible at whatever is your local airfield - you may get some flying out of it but more importantly you'll get contacts and experience.

Since we're here on Flyer we shuld probably mention their careers show too! Not sure when that is more next year but keep your eyes peeled for the date.

Good luck.

[leiafee]

On the last note of cost by the way - I learned to fly when on minium wage so it can be done - especially with supportive parents if you're effectively rent and utility bill free - make the most of those years before you have to run a house of your own too!

[Captain Chairborne]

Slightly OT, but what does it cost to go to University these days? I know student loans have preferential terms, but there can't be much between a 3 year degree and a frozen ATPL

[jawskk]

Thats a good point, but if i end up paying £80,000 for my chance to get into commercial in 3 years, then its alot more pricey than uni! could anyone maybe sum up how much i would have to look to spend to get airbourne and the best way?


PS: as im a new guy , the mods didn't post my replys, so there is a big reply higher up in the this thread that I clicked to reply to the previous people, its a tad confusing, but you'll find it thanks!

[RMurphy195]

Hi Mike -

I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm - far from it - but you might want to take a realistic view on costs, this will help with your expectations on timescale etc.

First of all don't assume you'll get your nppl in the minimum hours (or whatever it is) - make up a slightly larger number then multiply it by the hourly rate you've been quoted and make a note of this number.

Then take a view on all the other costs you'll probaby incur - exam fees, books and materials, medical fees, cost of licence, cost of the skills test/radio test etc. I came up with quite a big number - over £1000. That's when you start dropping hints re Christmas and Birthday presents!

NB the NPPL will onl be valid for certain aircraft util about April 2015 I think - google LAPL to get more info. This might help you decide which medical to go for at the outset, depending on what you expect to fly, and save unexpected costs later. Try this link http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid ... agetype=90 and especially look at the "Frequently Asked Questions concerning the new European rules for pilot licensing "

I can send you a spreadsheet if you wish with my anticipated costs on it - you would probably want to remove some of the items if so. I think there's a way for you to pm me from this forum if you want me to forward a copy.

Cheers - Richard

[Genghis the Engineer]

I suspect at that price differential, and the description offered we're comparing NPPL(M) with navigational restrictions, against FCL PPL(SEP), very different beasts.

But what the heck. I did NPPL(M) with restrictions when I was 22, desperate to fly, but had no money. 6 months and just enough flying to keep me enthused later, I managed to lift the restriction, then just kept adding ratings as I went along until I eventually got to CPL.

All flying is good, some is cheaper than others!

G

[Rob P]

Looking at the original post, and at the NPPL (M) offered at Pegasus I'd say they were a perfect fit.

The youngster wants to fly, and with luck that would get him airborne very cheaply.

But Mike remember, unlike a car licence, you will actually fly solo well before you are qualified. If your aim is to fly, alone in the aircraft, on your 17th birthday it is possible you could accomplish this for well under the price of the qualification.

However, you should apply for a Class One medical now. There's no point in working through the foothills towards an aviation career to find out many thousands of pounds down the road that you won't meet the requirements.

Rob P

[Charles Hunt]

What Rob said.

Get airborne.

Get the medical.

[low&slow]

If money's tight & you're going the microlight route I would hold off on the Class 1medical until you're ready to commit to a professional career.

You will probably save yourself the price of several flying lessons by getting the standard NPPL medical declaration signed by your family GP.

[RMurphy195]

If money's tight & you're going the microlight route I would hold off on the Class 1medical until you're ready to commit to a professional career.

You will probably save yourself the price of several flying lessons by getting the standard NPPL medical declaration signed by your family GP.

I did it this way - my GP did not charge but I think they are entitled to. Go prepared with all the stuff/guidelines he needs to read. Be prepared to leave the info with him for a couple of days if it's new to him/her. See this web site if you haven't already done so http://www.nationalprivatepilotslicence ... edical.php. This has a very long validity so if you lessons take an extended time for any reason you don't have to worry about renewingfor a while.

I've now replaced this with an LAPL medical (covers NPPL and LAPL licences), cost me about £100 + vat with an AME, valid 2 years, which might be another option if your GP is unable to help. This is better and I suspect cheaper than the "PPL" medicals which are valid for 1 year (I think).

BTW when I looked around I found some schools offered training in a motorised glider, which can save loads of dosh. Some were gliding clubs!