Where to start?

[Rob P]

The 'Full ATC' thing is no biggie.

At fields with less exalted services you learn a very specific set of calls and responses (assuming a decent quality of instructor) and the ability to make and rely on your own airmanship decisions.

At a full ATC field you simply do what you are told. How hard is that?

If it was a simple choice between paying more to learn at an expensive ATC field and less to learn elsewhere it's a no-brainer. You could always spend a portion of the savings on an additional RT course if doing what you are told seems an issue.

Close to home is good. You will have wasted trips, inevitably.

All the other stuff is good - particularly to buy your logbook TODAY then turn up for trial lessons at a variety of clubs carrying it. It shows you are serious and means none of those trial lessons is wasted as they all count towards your 45 hours - Though few students qualify in the minimum anyway.

Rob P

[charlie crocodile]

I must say that I'm leaning towards Andrewsfield, I'm going to pop into a few clubs during the week and see what's what.

Another question, silly I'm sure, but hourly rates of hire - are they charged on the amount of time the aircraft is away from the club or only when airborne? It seems horrendously expensive to hire a plane and say fly from Essex to France and pay £xxx for the hour or two it's on the ground in France.
Of course i understand the club is run as a business and time the plane isn't in the air is not profitable, but curious nonetheless.

[weirdfish]

Not a silly question at all, I remember wondering the same thing when I was starting out. You only pay for the time the aircraft is in use. Fly for an hour and land today, then return tomorrow afternoon or next week it would still only be two hours rental.

Whether you'd be able to do that with a particular rental aircraft is another issue, as like you say, while it's parked idle at your destination it's not earning it's keep.

[GrahamB]

Not a silly question at all, I remember wondering the same thing when I was starting out. You only pay for the time the aircraft is in use. Fly for an hour and land today, then return tomorrow afternoon or next week it would still only be two hours rental.
.

Whilst clubs charge per hour of use, they may well stipulate a minimum hours charge if you are taking it away for the whole day.

[Mark R]

Also, there's a number of different ways of counting the 'time' if you need to compare between schools.

Brakes-off to Brakes-on: Which is the same as you put in your logbook. Which keeps things simple.
Airborne + fixed taxi time (e.g. 5 mins either side): Like above, but avoids paying for sitting at the hold at busy airports.
Hobbs: A mechanical counter which runs all time the engine is running. (usually, though some are connected differently)
Tacho: counts the revolutions of the engine, but is converted to time. So 1hr at cruise RPM shows 1hr, but sitting on the ground will go slower. Doing aerobatics will go faster!

The first two are pretty much you get what you pay for.
A Hobbs meter will show the highest hourly usage vs actual time in the air as it's running all the time. So you should expect the 'hourly' rate to be the lower in comparison.
If charged by Tacho, then assume roughly 0.8 tacho hours is equivalent to 1 loggable hour. So you would expect the rate to be higher.

[charlie crocodile]

Thanks again for the answers, that's more questions to ask on my travels to flying clubs next week.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Why would you want to do an NPPL?

Go for a LAPL or PPL.

[charlie crocodile]

Why would you want to do an NPPL?

Go for a LAPL or PPL.

Since writing the first post it's become apparent that PPL is the way forward as NPPL is too restrictive, the lure of flying to France is too great! Plus adding IR, IMC & night qualifications are a bonus.

[ROG]

Charlie--I beleive that andrewsfield have both high wing and low wing aircraft--just another choice.
The high wings are -i"m pretty sure -PA28 --4 seats . The cessnas are 150/152 2 seats-unless a 172--4 seats . Sometimes you can buddy up with another student and sit in the back of a 4 seater---you learn more that way.
I learned in a PA28-140 -so that"s why i prefer low wing--we now own a PA28--180 which is a good all round aircraft.
Anyway best of luck--keep us informed.

[Rob P]

The high wings are -i"m pretty sure -PA28 --4 seats .

I think your certainty might be misplaced

Rob P

[ROG]

Rob--glad you"re on the ball--spot on---senior moment--trying to confuse charlie--the high wing aircraft are of course cessnas--low wing PA28.
APART FROM THAT FACTUALLY CORRECT.!--I"VE HAD A HARD DAY.!
That brings another point --lot easier to check the fuel on a cherokee.
Charlie--thats around 12 or so points to put on your list.

[A le Ron]

Many years ago, I started at a full ATC regional airport. The fees, the waiting around and the sterile atmosphere killed my enthusiasm, and I gave up. After a few years I started again at a local A/G flying club - and loved every moment of it. Moreover, my experience of the instruction I got at the club was that it was in fact better suited to my needs - I was being taught by enthusiasts who were instructing for the love of flying and who were motivated by a desire to pass on their skills; whereas at the big airport I had been taught by an airline-aspirant hours builder whom I just didn't get on with. So you can't assume that the big training schools at major airfields are "better" - they are designed for a specific market and may not suit your requirements at all. The cultural elements of the training institution are so important - it is difficult to overestimate them. Visit. Make sure it feels right. And if it isn't working for you, don't be afraid to change school. Enjoy!

[Keef]

The advice to "look around" is spot on. One size doesn't fit all, and the instructor you like may not suit the next person, or vice-versa. I was very lucky when I started, that the instructor I was matched with was a calm, unflappable, docile bloke who could put up with the worst I could do without losing his cool. He took me from ab initio to PPL/Night/IMCR. He now flies silver tubes full of holidaymakers, but that happens to many of the best instructors.

You may like the club atmosphere, or you may like the more formal atmosphere of a "school". You may like the Air/Ground type of radio, or you may prefer full ATC. Whichever suits you is the one to go for. Don't worry about the "other" one - it's easy enough to learn ATC-type radio (or Air/Ground type) later on, without needing to spend hours flying.

I learned in a full ATC environment, with Tower and Approach (and for a while Ground, too), I now fly from a strip where there is a frequency but nobody on the radio. It took me less than a minute to adapt. Going the other way may have needed a few minutes. You'll need to do the "CAP413" thing either way, at some stage in your training.

[RMurphy195]

... it's easy enough to learn ATC-type radio (or Air/Ground type) later on, without needing to spend hours flying...

What Keef says is spot-on - I'm currently learning at an "Air/Ground" airfield, and have found that listening-in to different airfields using an airband radio (Cost = about 40 mins flying time!) is very educational, and a bit cheaper than flying time. Sitting on top of the LIckeys listening to Birmingham ATC at this time of year can be a bit chilly though!

[charlie crocodile]

Read the CAP413 PDF yesterday, most informative. I never knew that wilco mean WILl COmply!

Going to try pop into Earls Colne this afternoon for a recce assuming I get stuff done at the office.

Also, if I were to purchase a handheld airband scanner, would I be able to catch Stansted transmissions in Colchester or am I too far away?