Can AOPA give an opinion on this??

[Bald Sparrow]

I posted this on the GA Discussion Forum.

I see a problem, after 1st July 2012, knowing what licence will be valid if flying an N reg in EU.

CAA have said in their Quick Guide that “From 1 July 2012, EU rules for licence validations will apply.......... As written, the EU legislation will apply European validation rules for private flights from 8 April 2014.”

I have to assume that what they are referring to (because I can't find anything later than this) is on the eur-lex.europa.eu website. COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) No 1178/2011 of 3 November 2011 says "By way of derogation from paragraph 1, Member States may decide not to apply the provisions of this Regulation to pilots holding a licence and associated medical certificate issued by a third country involved in the non-commercial operation of aircraft specified in Article 4(1)(b) or (c) of Regulation (EC) No 216/2008 until 8 April 2014."

There is a difference between "will" and "may". CAA, it seems, will not apply the validation rules until 2014. But will every NAA in the EU do the same?? Have any other NAA's given similar guidance to our CAA?

With the CAA's statement, I am happy that I can fly N reg in UK (which I could do anyway on my old CAA licence). But what is the position if I fly to France where I need my 61.75. Have our French friends decided to postpone validation rules until 2014 or will they require this from 2012?? If the latter, surely I need an EASA licence now. But, as the FAA may not recognize the EU as a "state", it would be illegal to do that as well.

Is there an answer or do we wait to see who the French arrest first?




The Irish IAA's website has information regarding EASA Part FCL that says:
"The IAA is also considering applying for derogations in some areas such as:
• Validation of Third Country Licences"
and goes on to say:
"This now means that the holder of an US FAA Airman certificate who is resident in the EU may not use that certificate in Europe on an EASA aircraft even if that aircraft is registered in the US."
That seems to be the latest information available so maybe that will be enforced in Ireland from this year?

I think pilots trying to fly N registered aircraft risk being detained over licence disputes.

The easy out will be to get an EASA licence. Which is easy for those holding a 61.75 FAA licence piggy-backed on their UK one?? But then we are being told not to apply for an EASA licence because matters such as the IMC rating are still not resolved. Plus there is the issue of remaining legal under FAA rules and the FAA might not recognise an EASA licence issued in UK as valid in French airspace..

What is needed here is for EASA to allow all FAA licence holders to operate under those licences for another two years at least, not rely on NAA's who may apply for derogations, and get this sorted out.

What are you doing AOPA?

[nickwilcock]

At this stage, the only advice I can give is to refer you to http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/620/g-FAQ%20FEB12_280212.pdf Question 26.

However, I understand that all matters concerning 'third country' regulation are yet to be confirmed. A bi-lateral agreement between the FAA and EASA is expected, but as for when........

[Bald Sparrow]

At this stage, the only advice I can give is to refer you to http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/620/g-FAQ%20FEB12_280212.pdf Question 26.

However, I understand that all matters concerning 'third country' regulation are yet to be confirmed. A bi-lateral agreement between the FAA and EASA is expected, but as for when........

But I think you miss the point. This gives clear guidance for the UK if you don't hold a UK licence. I think most people flying N reg in the UK have both FAA and CAA or JAR and many of those FAA licenses are issued (piggy-backed) on the basis of the UK issued one. (Maybe an IR has been added to the FAA one.)

A pilot from UK cannot operate an N registered aircraft outside the UK on the basis of their UK licence, even a JAR one. Numerous pilots have been caught trying. One needs to hold an FAA licence if flying outside the UK. If that FAA licence is not recognised in the EU from later this year, then surely I will be limited to flying N reg in the UK only?