Who's REALLY in command?

[Anon]

Picture the scenario:

Relatively low-houred and recently-qualified PPL goes on a 'social' flight with an instructor with whom they are friendly (and have previously been taught by).

Said PPL flies a club aircraft from the left seat with said instructor in the right seat. As agreed before the flight the PPL is logging P1, the instructor is not being paid and solo-hire rates are being paid to the club.

If the excrement interacts with the ventilation device (like say the engine fails), who is REALLY in command of that aircraft? The legal position is obvious, but what is the real-world position?

On a similar note, has anyone ever been in a situation where:

(a) You're flying P1 and felt that you're not really in charge, that the person next to them was making the decisions.
(b) You're sat in the RHS as a passenger, and felt that the pilot logging P1 wasn't really taking responsibility and was deferring decisions to you.

Of course, the flight with the instructor passed without incident. But had it not done so, I think my position would be that I would not expect the instructor to take command, but also that I would not object if they expressed a desire to do so.

[alexbrett2]

Not been in that situation myself (still a student at the moment), but I'd expect the instructor not to immediately take control (unless the P1 was massively panicking / attempting to stall the aircraft or similar, but then I guess if I was RHS to someone else in that situation I'd probably do so given the alternative!), but probably offer to, and if I were P1 then I think I'd let them as I'd imagine chances of survival would be much higher that way...

[Gertie]

Discuss in advance. "This isn't a flying lesson, and I'm not asking for the usual running patter, but if you think I'm doing something actively dangerous please tell me." "If there's a fire would you mind taking control?" Ect ect, whatever suits.

[KNT754G]

In the first instance who is "in command" is kind of irrelevant. If there is someone else with access to flying controls who could probably do a better job in an emergency then why not take advantage of that?

2a) if you feel that someone is effectively usurping your command then, politely, tell them that you need to be doing all of this in order to expand your command abilities.
2b) encourage the LHS pilot to actively make the decisions, if necessary by turning any questions straight back to them "well what do you think yourself?" then enter into a discussion if necessary. If the discussion of alternatives can be left until post flight then so much the better.

I have been in the situation of sitting in the rear seat, telling myself that I am a passenger not an FI but having to forcibly point out that current course of action has massive risk, would they please care to take some corrective action.

[Flintstone]

I've been in this position several times. Well, not with it actually hitting the fan but deciding what would happen if it did. I always made it clear up before we went anywhere that I was no more than a passenger and would keep my arms folded if something went wrong unless asked otherwise.

Of course if they'd got it horribly wrong in the heat of the moment I'd be offering advice in whichever manner the circumstances required.

[Dominie]

I used to know a VERY experienced ex-RAF FI (like, 8,000 hrs instructional). He was checking me (55hrs total) on a group aircraft just after I got my licence. Sat ready to go at the end of the strip, I said "Pre take off brief - in event of an engine failure, you have control!" He smiled but I meant it.

He was very good another time when I was taking a student pilot friend to the PFA rally, and he wanted to go too - so he sat in the back and never said a word out of place, even when I let the student take control. However, I'm sure that I asked him to help with the lookout, and I would accept his advice any time.

[Aprocek]

Unsurprisingly, it is a very bad idea indeed to go flying without clarity over command...

Try these:

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cf ... 005-07.pdf

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cf ... 002-12.pdf

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cf ... 009-12.pdf