When is an airprox an airprox?

[Anon]

A few miles out from an airfield in Class G. Pretty clear day.

I had head inside cockpit just for a moment to do joining Freda - had to look down to switch tanks, check fuel levels, check Ts&Ps, DI against compass, Alt setting etc.

Look up... Aircraft in 12 o'clock head on same level, seemed very big but probably a few hundred metres when I saw him, he was already going hard left and nosing down to avoid me. I pulled hard left and pulled up to increase the distance.

So it was a late sighting, VFR, see and avoid in class G. We missed by a couple of hundred metres, I guess - mostly by the actions of the other pilot.

I decided it was not worth reporting an airprox as the other guy had seen me and had started avoiding action - so in this instance no risk of collision.

Right decision or should I have reported it?

[Anon]

(Different Anon)

I'd question why the other pilot decided to turn left in a head on...

if YOU had done the correct thing and turned right, you'd have probably smashed.

[Irv Lee]

to answer the question:
the Airprox board website definition:

An Airprox is a situation in which, in the opinion of a pilot or a controller, the distance between aircraft as well as their relative positions and speed have been such that the safety of the aircraft involved was or may have been compromised.

[Anon]

OP - Anon

I am not going to question the other pilot's flying. I, at my own fault, saw a 'plane going hard a port and down to avoid me... I went hard a port and up. We missed. Whoever you were, sir, good flying. End of that discussion.

I thought about it and wondered whether I, Mr Anon PPL 300Hr, should be the judge of whether safety has "been compromised'.

"in the opinion of a pilot". Well that would be me.

"...was or may..." thanks for the clarification.

For the benefit of the tape: In the event of a head-on you should break right*.

* Unless left is the better option.

[johnm]

The default option is break right, that's so the two captains have the best chance of seeing each other from the left hand seats. Default option isn't always the best option.

I had a similar event when another PA28 crossed my nose in its descent. I didn't see it until that point because like you I was doing a FREDA check and It was above and to my left and I didn't see it when I scanned before the check.

I reported an airprox.

I was also attacked by a helicopter climbing towards me while I was on a cleared base to final approach. I avoided him by a dirty dive and he called airprox and probably wished he hadn't when the controller pointed out that he'd infringed the fixed wing circuit!

[greggj]

I am very low hour student, but that reminds of me something my instructor was trying to tell me few times.
To break down the checks into smaller chunks, and do lookout in between. Makes more sense now

[Charles Hunt]

The best diagnosis I've heard for an airprox is "Did you duck?"

I had one of those on my third lesson. Instructor did not report it on the radio, which I think he should have done, or later.

I changed flying school.

[Pete S]

The best diagnosis I've heard for an airprox is "Did you duck?"

What a brilliant definition:

According to that there have been one or two airproxes I perhaps should have reported.......

[Anon]

(S)He nosed down, I pulled up. So, maybe, an alternative in this situation is "Did you clench?"

[Anon]

For the benefit of both forum etiquette and basic politeness:
Thanks for the replies.

I think I have come to the conclusion, with your help, that it wasn't reportable. It was a breathe-in rather than anything else escaping moment.

The reminder to break heads-down checks with heads-up looking is a good one.

Cheers
A

[Dave56]

I had a head on with a flex wing on my way to Cambridge this summer. I'd seen him in enough time and broke right, just at the same time he broke left....luckily I did a climbing turn right figuring even if he broke the wrong way I had the performance to be above him. I figured right.

I was in two minds whether to file an airprox but like the OP I'm not sure what sort of distances are considered an airprox. I didn't have to duck let's put it that way.

[Morley]

If someone on your right is on a collision course never forget that you are on his left.
That plus the Rule that says the converging aircraft on the right has priority and the one on the left should pass behind it explains the break to the right option.

Did you duck is indeed a good Definition. I have ducked once and issued an airprox.

[Morley]

Sozz forgot. If you break right and collide you weren't going to hit them in the first place. Not sure that is at all helpful, actually!

[KNT754G]

If either aircraft had to take avoiding action other than a gentle deviation from their intended flight path then I think an AIRPROX is warranted.

It is clear that others here have been taught to keep looking out when doing FREDA/BUMFICH or whatever.

An AIRPROX and its subsequent investigation/report could have highlighted that to a far wider audience and potentially prevented someonne else's AIRPROX or worse in the future.

Investigation in the UK is not about blaming one or the other for what happened, it is about allowing everyone to learn from incidents.

Does that make you reconsider your decision?

[Jon H]

Sozz forgot. If you break right and collide you weren't going to hit them in the first place. Not sure that is at all helpful, actually!

I think it's a good point that instinctively turning right no matter what the nature of the threat could make matters worse. There could also be circumstances where rolling your wings might take one of them into the path of the other aircraft which would otherwise have missed you vertically.

As my instructor told me, no matter what the rules of the air say, the one that overrides all the others is that the commander must do whatever he can to avoid a collision.