Scary but good experience

[NeilA]

Yes learnt all at Panshanger.

[AndyR]

Andy, the transponder was on Standby before I spoke to Luton.

Neil

I think that was a very brave answer. You didn't have to be honest but have been and are prepared to take the inevitable stick that goes with it.

I too am concerned that anything other than full Mode C use of the transponder should not have been tattooed onto your conscious mind when flying from anywhere, but in particular from somewhere like Panshanger. I am not so much having a go at you, rather the establishment you learned at. With all the cries for more and more controlled airspace and mandatory transponder zones, this is just more ammunition.

I have watched ATCO's put commercial jets straight over the top of such a non transponding aeroplane as yours in the Luton zone and I found it rather chilling that they had the faith to do so. No wonder they nag at us all to use the transponder with mode C!

I would hope you take this as constructive criticism and I do realise that you are new to the world of aviation. As said above your honesty is also to be commended. Do try and make use of Mode C standard procedure from now on. It may just save your life one day. Fly safe and have fun!

[NeilA]

Thanks for that info. To be honest I hadn't realised how much people wanted us pilots to use mode c. From what I was taught (or not taught) at Panshanger, it didn't seem that important to me.

[Dave Phillips]

Mike, the solution is far easier. Mandate Mode S.

[Keef]

The last four flights I've made, I haven't touched the transponder.
It comes on with the avionics master, set to 7000 Mode S Mode C, and stays that way till I turn off the avionics master.

What I don't know is whether or not it's sending anything more than the basic stuff. Maybe I'll pick a quiet time and ask someone.

[Cub]

The last four flights I've made, I haven't touched the transponder.
It comes on with the avionics master, set to 7000 Mode S Mode C, and stays that way till I turn off the avionics master.

What I don't know is whether or not it's sending anything more than the basic stuff. Maybe I'll pick a quiet time and ask someone.

Let me know next time you go flying and I will grab the data. I suspect, 7000, Mode C, Flight ID and the Hex Code. If I haven't written to you over the past couple of weeks I suspect the data is fine and working as 'on the side of the box'.

[Flyin'Dutch']

The syllabus is woefully inadequate.

Any time spend on teaching people to navigate by compass and stopwatch should be used to teach people to use a GPS.

[vintage ATCO]

. . . . and what to do when GPS fails, locks up, gets jammed . . . .

[Jim Jones]

Agreed, I have a basic Garmin 96c since the unsure of position event, but only as backup. It has locked up, been slow to refresh, and been invisible in bright light....

And suffered from operator error..


Too many holes for my liking....

[AndyR]

The syllabus is woefully inadequate.

Any time spend on teaching people to navigate by compass and stopwatch should be used to teach people to use a GPS.

OK, I will bite.

Navigating by compass and stopwatch works. Remarkably well. Providing your stopwatch doesn't run out of batteries (mine doesn't use batteries), it will get you around the world.

Much as I agree that GPS should now be part of the PPL syllabus, it should not be at the expense of traditional navigation, if anything both should receive more priority than they do.

With the exception of my CPL Skills Test every time I have got myself in a mess has been when my GPS has decided to lose it's signal.

Does nobody get a feeling of accomplishment by navigating by dead reckoning any more? Using ones own skills instead of a gadget? Much as I love my GPS, I love being able to navigate with my head, my eyes and some common sense far more.

[Keef]

There is a place for both. Both should be taught.

If I had to choose between GPS and "manual", and couldn't have the other, I'd choose "manual". But I'd prefer to have GPS, and VOR and DME, and compass and chart and stopwatch, because I like backup systems and multiple redundancy.

Does the CAA still refer to GPS as "spawn of the devil", or is it now recognised as an excellent means of navigation? That would be a step towards getting it onto the PPL syllabus.

[AndyR]

Does the CAA still refer to GPS as "spawn of the devil", or is it now recognised as an excellent means of navigation? That would be a step towards getting it onto the PPL syllabus.

No idea, but they really ought to start recognising it when they are approving GPS approaches.

It is a shame schools are so focussed on getting students through the PPL course in the shortest possible time. They really ought to be taking some time out to teach students about GPS and it's many useful benefits. However, all the time they have their backs to the wall financially I guess that will never happen
Having said that, it appears that some instructors don't even teach the importance of using transponders.

[leiafee]

[quote='AndyR']
Does nobody get a feeling of accomplishment by navigating by dead reckoning any more?[/quote]

Well I do. For me it's part of the fun.

I did eventually get a sort-of GPS solution but it's only a little PDA running POcket FMS. Since it's based on Window Mobile I certainly wouldn't trust it to the exclusion of (pretty much anything actually!). It's nice to have, but it's an extra.

I might feel differently if I flew something other that daytime VFR in a fairly minimally equipped aeroplane I suppose.

[mo0g]

[quote='AndyR'][quote='Keef']Does the CAA still refer to GPS as "spawn of the devil", or is it now recognised as an excellent means of navigation? That would be a step towards getting it onto the PPL syllabus.[/quote]

No idea, but they really ought to start recognising it when they are approving GPS approaches.

It is a shame schools are so focussed on getting students through the PPL course in the shortest possible time. They really ought to be taking some time out to teach students about GPS and it's many useful benefits. However, all the time they have their backs to the wall financially I guess that will never happen :(
Having said that, it appears that some instructors don't even teach the importance of using transponders.[/quote]

Perhaps there should be an optional Nav "conversion" course offered for post ppl students? 5 hours or so to offer real world nav procedures and practices - I know I would probably go for that immediately after getting my license.

This could even be done as groundschool, and therefore keep the costs down so that barrier doesnt exist.

The problem is that if the GST doesnt include new fangled nav equipment or procedures, then either it wont be taught, or if it is the student will quickly confine that to the back of the brain because it isnt going to be tested for.

I guess what I am saying is that clubs should perhaps do a bit more hand-holding post PPL and offer a few more "value add" services, rather than get them out of the door or try and sell tailwheel conversions and the like. The flying club should be a focus for disseminating all practical info for PPLs, not just teaching students and hiring aircraft out IMO.

Mark

PS Thanks to Neil for being brave and honest enough to tell us about his experience. I think people ought to be very careful with how they respond to stuff here - I know there is the option to remain anonymous but I would hate to think someone may be put off posting something that might raise awareness for others - I thought that was the point of this forum to be honest..

[Flyin'Dutch']

Navigating with compass and stopwatch is all nice and quaint on a clear day in an area where it does not matter.

To teach it to have it as the sole means of navigation in the LTMA is unclever.

QED (again)