[nallen]

No chance and why would we wish them to?

FLARM is very good at close proximity collision warning and that is what gliders do all day every day in situations like thermals. It is ideal for gliders.

Plus for the alpine flyers it has the option of a obstacle avoidance database.

[cockney steve]

I thought the restrictive trade practices act was supposed to deal with this sort of monopoly abuse.
Of course, one could argue that FLARM are merely making best commercial use of their intellectual property.

If the figures are correct (36,000 units was mentioned), development and tooling costs will have been long ago absorbed
The annual fee must be a very profitable revenue-stream.- however, given that PAW appears to work on an entirely different (and much more altruistic) business -model, It's probably only a matter of time before buying a PAW makes better sense than continuing paying the ransom-fee to keep ageing kit running..

[Paul_Sengupta]

FLARM doesn't have an annual fee.

[jollyrog]

Thanks to those that posted prompts for me.

The Trig unit software is up to date, already checked that. I have ordered a new USB/serial cable, as found in one of the threads identified and will get the DB9 end of the soldered up during the week.

I would still like to know if anyone has changed the USB settings in the PAW - I presume it would be NMEA as I can find/set this option in the TT21 at 4800 baud, but do you need to change one of the PAW USBs from "automatic"?

[Flying_john]

Yes - change the 1st one to Funke or Trig etc at 4800 and make sure you plug the cable in to socket 1.

[cockney steve]

Paul Sengupta said

FLARM doesn't have an annual fee.

I stand corrected! Their revenue -stream must, therefore , rely on a monopoly supply position and being able to charge whatever the market will bear.

As soon as their monopoly is broken, competition will produce much cheaper solutions....could future upgrades to PAW offer viable alternatives to FLARM, for those who need it's exclusive features?

[T67M]

I believe (but stand to be corrected) that the biggest difference between FLARM and PAW is that FLARM is a collision alerting device whereas PAW is a traffic alerting device. FLARM includes algorithms which silence alerts for nearby aircraft which are unlikely to collide with you based on the current trajectory of both aircraft - vital for gliders thermalling within a few feet of each other. PAW will alert for any aircraft within a certain distance of your aircraft. The unique feature of FLARM is of little or no use to most light aircraft except, possibly, those engaged in close foundation flying, and certainly is not (IMO) worth the extra cost.

Two prototype PAWs and a PAW Classic keep me safer, and more visible to other likely collision threats than my very expensive but Mode-S only GTX330 which Garmin conned me in to buying without ES.

[gaznav]

I'm not trying to be disingenuous or anti-PAW - honest! I am trying to stay focussed on what I think I need. I could go all "Emporer's New Clothes" with PAW and its supposed "cheap as chips" pricetag (cheaper is all I would say).

I think the last few posts have said it all for me. There are those that have used FLARM and realise its niche for GA (and its not just gliders) and there are those that think PAW will deliver a cheap FLARM - it will and you get what you pay for in capability and false alarms If you want something that will alert when an aircraft is really going to hit you then buy FLARM. Also, I personally feel PowerFLARM is uneccessary as it then starts to be a bit of what PAW is - a situational awareness tool rather than a pure 'sweet Jesus' we are going to hit something in less than 18 seconds.

If PAW did fit an OEM FLARM module then I would definately would be interested. Where I mostly fly I am surrounded by FLARM carrying aircraft from my home airfield, RAF Benson, Booker, Dunstable, Bicester and occasionally Thame - all within 5 minutes flying time! If you want to see how popular FLARM is in the UK then take a look at this on a good gliding day: http://live.glidernet.org/#c=50.64346,7.31010&z=4. Today it was 'booming' with 4kts (~400fpm) thermals and there were at least 30x FLARM equipped aircraft within 10 miles of my airfield. Having FLARM over PAW is an absolute 'no brainer' for me - paying £200-£300 extra (2-3 hrs of flying time) for a device that might save my bacon is worth every penny when it offers me a way of spotting those hard-to-see cross country gliders (thermalling ones are far easier to spot!).

Anyway, my plea is: "Please PAW Team, give us a way to use FLARM Mouse or OEM FLARM Module with PAW." That I believe will be the ultimate safety tool for electronic conspicuity in the UK.

Best to all

Gaz

[Paul_Sengupta]

There's nothing stopping anyone from buying both.

I have a second hand (classic) Flarm unit which is out of software date and now refuses to play ball with anything. I'm hoping it can be fixed somehow. Once the licence expires, these things are a nightmare to try and get going again. The quality of the Flarm stuff is nowhere near that of the PAW.

Who knows, maybe in the future there may be a way of combining both together, but that's not at the moment. In the meantime, if you want to know where the several hundred aeroplanes are who have bought a PAW, well, there's a bullet to be bitten...

[Dave W]

Anyway, my plea is: "Please PAW Team, give us a way to use FLARM Mouse or OEM FLARM Module with PAW." That I believe will be the ultimate safety tool for electronic conspicuity in the UK.

AIUI, that's a plea that needs to be directed to FLARM, rather than PAW.

[gaznav]

There are lots of things stopping me buying both:

1. Space.
2. Cost.
3. Space.
4. Ease of operation in a confined space....



Even a 7inch tablet is a tight squeeze on a kneeboard and then I have to go 'heads in' which rather defeats the object. Then if I mount a PAW and all its paraphernalia onto the cockpit coaming I can't see out either! That's just another reason why a Portable FLARM unit works for me...

Gaz

[gaznav]

Anyway, my plea is: "Please PAW Team, give us a way to use FLARM Mouse or OEM FLARM Module with PAW." That I believe will be the ultimate safety tool for electronic conspicuity in the UK.

AIUI, that's a plea that needs to be directed to FLARM, rather than PAW.

No it isn't, you could embody a capability for PAW to display FLARM data from the output of a FLARM mouse or OEM FLARM Module - that is only in the gift of PAW's designers.

[edit] in one of my last posts I explained that an OEM FLARM Module for a paraglider vario is as little as £115 and a FLARM Mouse is £444. A lot less to add FLARM functionality than some think. It just needs someone with the technical nouse to sort it - no issues with FLARM encryption with this as a FLARM product is used.

[Paul_Sengupta]

Ah, space, the final frontier...

[Iron Chicken]

Anyway, my plea is: "Please PAW Team, give us a way to use FLARM Mouse or OEM FLARM Module with PAW." That I believe will be the ultimate safety tool for electronic conspicuity in the UK.

AIUI, that's a plea that needs to be directed to FLARM, rather than PAW.

No, pleading with Flarm has not proven effective. If you have a Flarm (of any flavour) then the output is NMEA sentences which then could be integrated into PAW. You do not need to access the encripted Flarm RF.

[gaznav]

Iron Chicken, exactly!