[Sir Morley Steven]

Llandudno now cancelled.

[Balliol]

Yes congratulations CAA and congratulations Llandudno organisers, last year was terrible and if some time is needed I'd be quite happy if every air show in the UK was cancelled this year while we make sure any unnecessary risks to innocent members of the public are reduced. If people in the air display and GA industries keep trying to make this a CAA bashing exercise they should be ashamed in my opinion.

[G-BLEW]

It's a bit soon to cancel on the basis of increased charges while it is still a consultation isn't it?

[johnm]

I suspect that preparations take place quite a way ahead and the risks mean that canning it is the only manageable answer, sadly.

Notwithstanding Balliol comments I don't think the CAA response to the Shoreham tragedy makes much sense, the limits imposed on Hunters and the like and on other high energy displays while the AAIB do their work is a sensible precaution. Beyond that there needs to be a cause and effect relationship to show how the new regime might stop another Shoreham.

[Dave Phillips]

There really are some major leaps being made here. In 2014 I sat on one of the embryonic GA Unit working groups. At that time Tony Rapson stated that he was not constrained by budget and this would be the case for a year or so. After that, he would have to ensure that the Unit washed its face. Personally, I see the consultation on new charges being an unfortunate coincidence, mostly.

PS. ALL the representative GA organisations were at that meeting. It would appear that none chose to highlight the impending issue.

[Balliol]

The CAA charges are a complete red herring. The latest report (CAP1371) clearly highlighted how additional governance on display sites, display supervision and display crews are going to come in for the 2016 season. Quite rightly, a number of shows cannot right now be sure they can satisfy what may come of this so rather than take the financial risk of planning for a show that may have to be significantly changed, they are taking a pause in 2016. I believe the industry and pilots should be welcoming this, which gives the best chance of starting for a sustainable and safe 2017 season onwards.

[davef77]

Yes congratulations CAA and congratulations Llandudno organisers, last year was terrible and if some time is needed I'd be quite happy if every air show in the UK was cancelled this year while we make sure any unnecessary risks to innocent members of the public are reduced. If people in the air display and GA industries keep trying to make this a CAA bashing exercise they should be ashamed in my opinion.

I think that there is a very BIG difference between "bashing" and questioning. I agree that we should learn the lessons and make changes. But those chsnges should be made openly and rationally.

I don't think that closing down most airshows is a necssity. Surely, once we have the evidence of what went wrong, we can find a solution that protects the public and allows airshows to continue?

I don't agree with those that paint the CAA as greedy or malicious, but I do have some skepticism about this decision. It smacks of cheap politics rather than the sort of rational decision making that I would hope for from an aviation body. Aviation has a history of a powerful safety culture. At the moment I don't see how this move fits with that.

[Dave Phillips]

CAA statement.

"Our current charges consultation for air displays is based on two factors; firstly, that the regulation of air shows has historically been subsidised by other aviation industry charge payers and ultimately their passengers. Secondly, the charges reflect the increased costs of implementing the additional safety activities outlined in the recent air display action report. Safety is our first priority and we believe these additional measures are necessary to further improve the safety of air displays.

“We are not funded by the tax-payer and are required by law to recover our costs from the aviation industry. Each year we consult on our proposed charges, providing an opportunity for interested parties to outline their views.

“Our research shows that the proposed fees to cover the cost of our regulatory and safety work would mean an increase of just a few pence per ticket for some small air display events and less than 20 pence for one of the largest based on the most recent attendance figures. The current cost of entry to these shows for the general public can be in the region of £20 to £50 per day."

[Sir Morley Steven]

So the cancellation of scores of small air shows is a good thing? Sheesh!
When was the last ground fatality before the Hunter? Shortly after I was born, that's when.
What was the cause of the Hunter crash? Underpayment of airshow fees?
What caused the Bournemouth Reds crash? Lack of red tape and regulation?
This will not improve safety a bit unless you count the total absence of airshows as an increase in safety. The CAA should properly be about safety as they claim in their response which is political guff.
Pretty soon the RIAT and Farnborough will be the only ones left.
Yeah. Punish the small guys.

[Frank Leopald]

I wouldn't count on Farnboro'

FL

[Mike Tango]

One of my best friends is being punished for the rest of his life. I'm with Balliol.

[Dave Phillips]

Steve, you're just plain wrong (my personal opinion).

[Elecy]

Balliol and Mike T, you've just given me good cause to stop and reconsider my (what had been) negative thoughts towards the CAA over this issue.


Mark

[AlanM]

It is very sad to lose these small/medium sized shows. But ultimately, MikeT and others are absolutely correct. (not only for the loss of a colleague's son)

Personally, I have been on the organizing committee at RIAT, controlled at Farnborough and more recently at Jersey Air shows. Therefore, I do NOT hate airshows and aviation.

I think that the attendees at airshows are among the most protected in aviation - yet on another forum someone suggested that airshows are like motorsport events and that attendees must accept the risk. Absolutely right - and they do. Display lines are pushed further away from the runway and the DL is now affecting those outside the airfield. Look at Farnborough and watch A380s doing high alpha passes over built up housing estates at 500ft - well away from those who attend and therefore accepting of a risk.

I would expect more shows to be over the sea - like Dawlish (and Jersey) or less populated areas.

I would imagine that the CAA will be less happy when they log the fact that the display area at Fairford is now saturated with farmers selling camp pitches under the display area. Maybe they will legislate against that?

Kev and the guys at Dawlish (and others) will, I hope, bounce back. Airshows are expensive - and unless at a contained site like an airfield hard to recover costs. BUT a new strategy is needed for them. Think outside that box!

We may never stop another Shoreham, but those haunting images are huge. Displaying over a major trunk road is a risk that is not worth taking. I have no idea how many people would have transitted the A27 during the display times but they are not the people to be in the risk zone.

It is hard to fight against any form of safety based regulation in the light of what we have all seen.

PS I really love displays, honest!

[jollyrog]

Old Warden charge around £25 a head. Lots of discounted tickets and children are free.

How likely is it that they can get an additional 600 full price visitors through the gates to cover this £15,000 fee each time?