Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By kghjfg
#1434259
Being my first PP I don't know the format once we arrive, but I'll volunteer to be a waiter if it helps.

Even if just the drinks are done via waiter service would that help ?
I can bring a notepad and walk to and from a bar / drinks area.
I'll bring me own tray if it helps.

I'm presuming food is buffet ? which brings it's own problems, but if fixed menu, then surely you have quite a few Pilots around that could help deliver the food.

Just a thought.
By kghjfg
#1434264
Johnny wrote:Sorry only qualified pilots allowed :thumleft:


That's ok, I may be a student right now, but I have a contingency plan.

My CFI is coming. The main issue is how many hours I'll have before PP, low hours PPL flying in to a very busy meeting? Maybe not a good idea, so CFI and veteran flying in, me and companion in the back. Myself and Veteran in the front on the way home. Correct, only qualified pilots allowed, so the plan is to be one, but there are qualified pilots and then there are "qualified pilots", they need the correct type.

We are in a C177, so we are going to do a reposition to make best use of 4 seats and a high wing. I'll do the repositions too.

All discussed with those organising.

Following year I'll have 3 seats free instead of 2 probably. :thumright: :thumleft:

Still don't mind being a qualified waiter when I arrive.
By hatzflyer
#1434278
Johnny wrote:Sorry only qualified pilots allowed :thumleft:


I don't find that a helpful post.
Maye it could have been better handled by sending a pm.

If someone is giving up their time and money to support this event they could deserve a little more respect.

I signed up for the first year of this event but my veteran did not turn up . He left me standing at the airfield with the aircraft ready to go with not so much as a phone call. It turned out that "he had a better offer" but forgot to tell me.

The next year I was told that I was " not needed".

I have signed up this year " under new management " and hope for better things.
By LZ791
#1434342
hatzflyer wrote:
Johnny wrote:Sorry only qualified pilots allowed :thumleft:


I don't find that a helpful post.
Maye it could have been better handled by sending a pm.

If someone is giving up their time and money to support this event they could deserve a little more respect.

I signed up for the first year of this event but my veteran did not turn up . He left me standing at the airfield with the aircraft ready to go with not so much as a phone call. It turned out that "he had a better offer" but forgot to tell me.

The next year I was told that I was " not needed".

I have signed up this year " under new management " and hope for better things.


Hatz, I hope you get rostered. Speaking from personal experience, this will be my third PP all project managed by Graham AKA as Grim reaper. I take my hat off to him for co coordinating a superb day out for veterans and GA pilots
Each venue has its own challenges, but all are overcome and points learned that can be rolled into the following years event. What I would say to any pilot who has yet to participate in PP get involved before its to late. Each year sadly there are less veterans left, and within our life time (certainly mine assuming I get to their great ages) there will be none left. If I could to fly on one day only in 2016 it would be for PP such is the occasion and worthwhile cause.

I recall flying to Gloucester two years ago with three vets on board, youngest 91 oldest 96 all of them having a wonderful time watching the green fields pass by below. Suddenly on the intercom came the call "bogey at three oclock" Far off to
starboard was a dot moving at our pace and direction another inbound to PP at Gloucester. Sadly two of my esteemed crew have to quote "now left the circuit" RIP Bruce and Mike I will for ever treasure our day together and the enjoyment it bought to you both and to me.
By hatzflyer
#1434352
I have been rostered and it has been my privilege to fly many vets both English and American over the years and more recently supported help for the hero's .
I am pleased to be part of it and have recruited others from Nayland to join in. :D



I dropped into Rougham earlier today. Good luck with the 150 ! They are good little aircraft.
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By Jonzarno
#1434403

I recall flying to Gloucester two years ago with three vets on board, youngest 91 oldest 96 all of them having a wonderful time watching the green fields pass by below. Suddenly on the intercom came the call "bogey at three oclock" Far off to
starboard was a dot moving at our pace and direction another inbound to PP at Gloucester.


Here's a story I have posted before from PP 2014 at Gloucestershire. I was doing a short 30 minute VFR hop taking a veteran home from the event.

There I was, fat dumb and happy, at 3350 ft keeping away from round number altitudes, when the 90 year old flight engineer sitting next to me pointed to the left out of the windscreen. I looked towards where he was pointing and saw....... Nothing!.

A few seconds later, a glider came into view executing a right turn to avoid me. I did the same and there was no issue, we were still far enough apart but it could have been very nasty.

I worked out afterwards that I hadn't seen him because he was hidden behind the front door pillar (constant bearing=constant danger, eh?) and, although I had been looking out, I hadn't moved my head, only my eyes.

Thankfully, the veteran sitting next to me was still doing what he had done successfully 70 years ago! I'm grateful to him, both for the warning, and the lesson which I thought I would share.

It's amazing that so many of these guys haven't lost the knack of spotting aircraft after all these years and that they're still better at it than I am!

There is a serious lesson here for anyone doing PP for the first time: there will be a very large number of aircraft sharing the same bit of sky at the same time and a thorough understanding of the arrival and departure briefs and a really good look out is vital!
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By rats404
#1434430
Good advice there from Jonzarno. My first PP was at Gloucester in 2014 and a few miles out from the airfield, shortly after leaving one of the holding points, I was seriously cut up by a pilot in a relatively high performance aircraft completely ignoring the agreed brief. If it's your first time, don't assume that people will follow the brief or be as conscientious as you. Keep a bloody good lookout.

Really make the effort to read, understand and follow the brief. If you're not sure of anything, ask here. I certainly will, even if I do get some stick about it. We have enormous responsibility for the safety of our illustrious passengers.
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By gasman
#1434437
My own experience of flying into PP at Cosford last year was that the arrival slot system via holding points seemed to work well and that a high standard of airmanship was apparent.
Have my veteran arranged for Scampton this year :D
G-BHIB
EGCJ
By Lefty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1434499
gasman wrote:My own experience of flying into PP at Cosford last year was that the arrival slot system via holding points seemed to work well and that a high standard of airmanship was apparent.
Have my veteran arranged for Scampton this year :D
G-BHIB
EGCJ


We copied that holding point idea - and the 90kts inbound speed, from the Oshkosh procedures.

We were not able to persuade them to paint coloured dots on the runway :D - nor even to allow mid point exits from the runway.
#1437972
Just a quick note when flight planning for PP.
Make sure you allow for the time you might spend in the "Hold", and time in the queue before take off.
I have experienced a max time of 22 minutes in a hold, some pilots have reported in excess of 30 mins.
Queue time seems to have been significantly reduced due to slot planning but pilots should be aware that there will be some time doing this.
These two factors can be easily overlooked, but can be of importance when calculating fuel.
Don't assume that there will be fuel available at the event. There might not be on the day for some reason, this has happened on a previous event due to a bowser breaking down.
Plan an alternative for your return journey for a fuel stop, and check that are open for fuel at the allotted time as some airfields close early if they are not busy.
This will be my 6th PP, they are all different, and it is always one of the most memorable flying times of the year.

Ed
Last edited by Eddy Blyth on Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By GrimReaper
#1438775
I'm away this half-term week so apologies for the lack of response to emails. Just a quick post to let you know that there's a meeting scheduled with the RAF at the end of the month. I'll report back once that has taken place.
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By GrimReaper
#1441357
All registrant pilots - irrespective of whether currently assigned a veteran or not - should now have my first "Air Ops" e-mail in their inboxes. I have reproduced that e-mail below, in case pilots want to commence a dialogue here. I will endeavour to answer any questions arising:

Dear [Pilot]

I had a most constructive meeting with the Royal Air Force on 25th February.

This e-mail relates to purely airside operational matters. I will issue further communication about the events on the day once the RAF has confirmed final details. I am sending this e-mail to all pilots who have volunteered for the day, irrespective of whether they have currently been assigned a veteran or not.

Landing at RAF Scampton

Scampton is still an active military base, and as such, all inbound aircraft must be pre-authorised. This will entail completion of a booking-in sheet (to follow) and provision of a copy of your Insurance Policy, which must have Crown Indemnity Insurace of £7.5m.

I will act as co-ordinator for the provision of insurance documents, so if you could please e-mail a PDF of your cover note to me, I can begin the process of assembling this data for onward submission to the RAF. The e-mail to use is graham[AT]projectpropeller.co.uk

Capacity at RAF Scampton

There is a hard limit of 144 aircraft inbound to Scampton. I am expecting there to be circa 180 active aircraft, assuming good weather and no change to veteran numbers.

As such, we need to use a second airfield, which will be at Wickenby, and arrange for a short transfer (11 miles) by shuttle bus to the event at Scampton.

In the first instance, I am asking for volunteers who would be willing to fly into Wickenby. This might be particularly suitable for (a) tail draggers wishing to use a grass runway (grass will not be available at Scampton)(b) pilots with a definite fuelling requirement (see further notes below) and (c) low hours pilots who might prefer to use a less crowded airspace.

If I don’t receive sufficient volunteers, I will be bound to select aircraft myself; in doing so, I will have regard to the following factors:

• Veterans requiring wheelchairs, or with short mobility tolerances
• Veterans who served at Scampton during their service days
• Aircraft that have undertaken significant repositions to pick up veterans
• Aircraft that have travelled the furthest distances

If you are in one of the categories above, you’re less likely to be asked to fly into Wickenby (in descending order). I appreciate that most pilots will want to fly into Scampton, but I would ask for your good grace and tolerance if I ask you to land at Wickenby.

There will be a support network in place at Wickenby, which will include Air Cadets to help with disembarkation/re-embarkation, and a shuttle bus system will run between Wickenby and Scampton; details will be fully communicated later.

Fuel at Scampton

Fuel will be available at Scampton and can be requested on the booking-in sheet. However, it would be appreciated if fuel is not uplifted at Scampton unless absolutely necessary, as this will entail additional aircraft movements and place extra strain on the marshalling / ATC teams.

I will speak to various en-route airfields to establish whether they’d be willing to waive landing fees for pilots requiring a fuel uplift. Fuel will be available at Wickenby for aircraft landing there.

Departures

I will do my utmost to avoid the queueing problems encountered last year. This will be addressed as follows:

• Pilots will be allocated a departure slot; whilst this will not be rigid (some veterans will want to leave earlier, some will want to stay longer), it will provide a loose structure to assist in regulating departures. The system will work on the basis of “early in = early out”
• It is likely that veterans who are capable of walking back to the flight line will be permitted to do so, which will ease the pressure on transport.
• There will be a nominated Project Propeller volunteer (Sqdn Ldr (ret’d) Harry Burgoyne) acting as departure co-ordinator, who will communicate with veterans and pilots throughout the day.
• I have asked for seats to be provided at the departure muster point, so that veterans are comfortable if any delay should develop.
• A means of calling forward guests for departure will be devised, most likely by way of PA announcement.

Instructions to pilots

The joining & landing instructions for pilots are currently being drafted, and we have set a soft deadline of the end of March for release. As soon as these are finalised, I will release them to pilots so that you can begin to familiarise yourself with them. It is essential that every pilot reads these instructions, bearing in mind the volume of aircraft inbound.

As ever, if you have any questions about the day, please don’t hesitate to get in touch.

Best wishes

Graham
jollyrog liked this
By Remosflyer
#1441400
Hallo Graham,

Are there any other father and son crews flying in?

(Dad ex ATA 1942-45, age 95, 71 types, 2500 hrs, myself 64, 30 types, 15000 hrs, we just hope we won't have to do an overhead join as neither of us has a clue...)

Thank you once again for the organisation,

Chris, Lee on solent
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