Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By mr.chips
#1400973
Hi folks, only my second post. I'm trying to find out about an American kit plane, the Searey. I'm sure lots of you have heard about it - http://www.searey.com/

I'm not licenced yet, but I'm going to start training soon and my ultimate goal is to own some sort of amphibious aircraft. I live in Scotland and would love to be able to take advantage of the amount of fresh water here. Maybe it's a romantic pipe dream but throwing some camping gear in a small amphib and heading to some remote location for a couple of days fly fishing is very appealing.

Now, I know of one Searey in Ireland and I have yet to contact the owners but maybe some of you could shed some light on the legalities of building or importing one to the UK and ultimately being able to fly it?

The Searey in Ireland is G-CREY, and the only information I could find about it is on the following websites:

https://searey.wordpress.com/
http://ilas.ie/new-searey-amphibian-g-crey-for-sale/

Also, if this video doesn't make you want to fly one of these little 2 seater amphibs, you must be mad :)

https://youtu.be/MA4xPLUFtaQ

Thanks!

Mr. Chips
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By Dave Phillips
#1400980
I was extremely fortunate to fly G-CREY with Pat Gallagher shortly after he finished building the aircraft. Pat was something of a legend who, between flying as a fixed wing and helicopter instructor/examiner, was a captain on FlyBe Dash 8s from Belfast City. Not long after completing the Searey he succumbed to a second iteration of cancer. Pat, himself an LAA test pilot, was instrumental in getting the aircraft through the whole UK permit-to-fly process.

The aircraft was fun. It wasn't refined but taking-off from Newtownards, hopping over the sea wall and then playing around on Strangford Lough was just amazing. The Rotax engine was plenty powerful enough and the aircraft very responsive. I'm sure the current owner would be more than happy to talk with you about the aircraft.
By CubLife
#1401671
mr.chips wrote:Now, I know of one Searey in Ireland ..............
The Searey in Ireland is G-CREY, and the only information I could find about it is on the following websites:
Mr. Chips


You forgot about EI-SEA based in Sligo...

Sound lads, regularly seen at multiple GA Fly-In's across our Island and France.
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By Lowtimer
#1401686
At the risk of derailing the forum by actually answering the question asked:

It is an LAA-approved type, on a G-reg, with a new LAA permit, so there's absolutely no barrier to buying it and operating it in the UK.

Operating it off water will require you to have permission from the owners of the lake, and the use of the lake for aviation in planning terms would fall under the 28-day rule. The lake would become an unlicensed aerodrome for the duration of operations.

The question of owner's permission is one you should evaluate in some depth before making any sort of financial commitment.
By cockney steve
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1401707
The question of owner's permission is one you should evaluate in some depth before making any sort of financial commitment.


Or you could land on the Briny and water-taxi into a harbour in inclement weather......OOPS, Perhaps not! :shock:
By mr.chips
#1401716
Thanks for the replies folks.

To be honest, I thought EI-SEA and G-CREY were the same plane but moved from an EI to G registration. If there are two of them then all the better.

If I do ever make this dream a reality, I would be mostly operating in Scotland. I know there are several lochs which are more difficult to gain permission to land on such as Loch Lomond, but up in the highlands do I still need the landowners permission? I was under the impression that Scotland was a much easier place to fly off water.
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By kanga
#1401734
mr.chips wrote:..
If I do ever make this dream a reality, I would be mostly operating in Scotland. I know there are several lochs which are more difficult to gain permission to land on such as Loch Lomond, but up in the highlands do I still need the landowners permission? I was under the impression that Scotland was a much easier place to fly off water.


AIUI (but IANAL):

In England and Wales, all inland water is deemed to 'belong' to an 'owner' (who may be individual, corporate or public), and permission is needed from that owner to 'use' it (including alight on it in an aircraft).

In Scotland and Northern Ireland (as in Canada and in may States in the US), substantial areas of inland water are deemed to be 'public' (although there may be reserved private uses, eg fishing or abstration for irrigation), so that if you can get to it you can 'use' it.
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By MichaelP
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1401788
I flew a SeaRey last year as I had a student doing a conversion from a Helicopter PPL to a Fixed Wing (Aeroplane) PPL.

This one was heavier as it had electrical retracting undercarriage, and this used jacks from a mobile home levelling system

I suspect the manual undercarriage retraction system is good enough.

Finding an examiner prepared to do a PPL flight test in this aircraft was difficult.
The student himself had many hours in an R44 and the attitude to match.
It's very difficult for some to go back and fly to a flight test requirement, "Why do I need to do a nav log?" "I have three GPS's"....
I passed him over to a school with a Cessna 152, lots of examiners, and an easy aeroplane to do a test in.
It took months for him to get in line, do the job to the TC standard and complete the test, but he got a good mark.

The SeaRey requires a lot of retrimming.
Every change in power required a change. Where this is very marked is when doing takeoffs and landings on the hard, touch and goes.
On the water time was taken to re-trim and set it up.

On the water the aeroplane is very manoeuvrable and the owner liked hairy step turns, he's a lot less cautious than me. But the aeroplane behaved well, and the winds were light.
Some SeaReys have porpoised and dumped in the water here.
One tipped in the river next to New Westminster and the pilot got out, the engine was still running, the pilot died.

I didn't find any excess tendency for the aeroplane to porpoise; when it starts a little back pressure on the stick sorts it.

The owner flew at high power all the time, it's a Rotax 914, and goes through fuel like nobody's business.
The aeroplane is drag personified, reducing the power did not reduce the speed as much as it reduced the fuel consumption.
You can fly this aeroplane at 16 litres an hour easily and be within 5 or 10 knots of the full power level speed.

Trouble was rudder control, the aeroplane is very much a rudder one, you need to used the rudder for every change of power.
We did steep turns at 75 MPH, slow flight at 50 MPH.
Stalls were easy with no nasty characteristics.
Climbing turn stalls with 23" Manifold pressure were undramatic... In the PPL flight test they want to see at least one wing drop stall.
We used 70 MPH for best glide.

Takeoffs and alightings on the water were easy and the aeroplane performed well.
Takeoffs and landings on a runway were not so easy. The suspension was hard and unforgiving. It's also not so easy to detect the three point attitude.
Tail low wheelers with the three point attitude immediately after touchdown seemed to work the best and were smooth.
The student had a tendency to land with the nose left.
Application of power for a go around required care.

I'll give you some performance figures from my notes:

Stall: 0 Flap: 44 MPH, Full flap 24 deg: 28 MPH IAS.

Climb test:
OAT was set to Fahrenheit

Start 500 feet 59F
1 minute 1,320 feet 51F
2 minutes 2020 feet 48F
3 minutes 2660 feet 46F

Airspeeds electric controlled VP/CS propeller:

29" 86 MPH
28" 4,970RPM 75 MPH
27" 55 MPH (see power increase after slow flight)
26" into slow flight
27" 4,970 RPM 85 MPH
28" 5,000 RPM 88 MPH
29" 5,270 RPM 91 MPH
30" 5,010 RPM 93 MPH, and again 5,460 RPM 93 MPH!
31" 5,460 RPM 99 MPH
32" 5,470 RPM 108 MPH (103 MPH at 5,070 RPM)

I write notes during every flight I do and I keep my notepads for future reference.

If you want one of these aircraft you can do a course in Florida to learn about the aeroplane.
Judging by how well my student operated this aircraft off the water, they do a very good job. Perhaps they concentrate on the water work.
You will need a PPL and to get TSA approval for the each of the training courses you do in the USA.
Alternatively you can do a seaplane rating here in Canada, and get checked out in a SeaRey.
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By irishc180
#1401842
Hi,
I fly a seaplane in Ireland. I've trained in Scotland with Marilynn and Neill, and flown with Hamish. My advice would be start the training and get the licence sorted. Then go fly all the small amphib types you can. Scotland and Florida are worlds apart and the small lakes with no wind you see in the YouTube videos are not what Scotland has to offer. I would review the mean wind speeds at your points of interest, as 15-20mph is only a wee breeze but would make flying off water a challenge. I've flown a Cub in days when bigger seaplanes couldn't get off the dock, so I'm all into keeping it light but there are alot of mistakes you can make along the way. As Neil G said in the bar after my flight test "Its very easy to make an expensive and embarrassing mistake in a seaplane". The must read book is "Seaplane Operations" which is the bible of water flying by Dale de Remer and Cesare Baj. I blame the opening scene in The Wickerman movie for the notions folk have on water flying in Scotland!

Irish
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1401867
As others say - you can land on most bits of water in Scotland without legal issue - the southern part of Loch Lomond exempted.
There are a couple of instructors who can put you through the float rating on Hamish's G-DRAM, based in Prestwick.
Do note that most aircraft on floats don't like salt water - you need to wash them carefully after going near salt. However it would be great to see some more amphibs around Scotland!
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By MichaelP
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1402047
Good point on the light winds and calm waters in inland Florida (except for the occasional tropical storm).
BC is closer to Scotland in terrain, but even here we don't often have the winds that blast across Scotland.

This past five days however began with a strong gusty wind that put Vancouver and the whole Lower Mainland out of power. The infrastructure here can not cope with rain and storms. (In October 1987 there was no power cut in Redhill).
I'm supposed to fly the Stinson 108-3 up to Green Lake, Whistler... On floats.

The Sea Rey is not an aeroplane you fly from water on a windy day.
There's a minimum number of waves per length of the hull, I can't quote this number, and then there's swell!
When you're on the water you are sitting in it, and it is so easy for the water to flood the cockpit!
You should choose pleasant days for seaplane flying unless you're doing it for work.

I have a Wilga on floats for sale... This was previously G RIIN and so has already been a British aeroplane. The wheels go with it as well.
http://www.mpaviation.com/pzl104.htm

Here's another option:

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