Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1376972
I note that Blackbushe is formally introducing* a limit of four training aircraft in the circuit at any one time. I've seen other airfields require that circuit practice be booked in advance, but rarely (if ever) with a stated capacity limit.

I think the most I've every encountered in a circuit was six (all arriving, not practicing).

So is four a reasonable number?

(*See Page 447 of next AIP update published 28 May)
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By QSD
#1376974
Redhilll have a limit.

From their guide to fixed wing operations:-

"The maximum number of fixed-wing aircraft permitted to fly circuits at any one time is restricted as follows: Runways 08, 18 and 26 - 4, Runway 36 – 3."

I suspect most training aerodromes have a limit of some sort.
By matspart3
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1376977
Depends on a number of factors, such as what's in the circuit type-wise, visibility, crossing runways, instrument approaches, number of joiners, speed differentials,experience of pilots and/or ATCOs etc. We used to 'notionally' accept 5 for circuit training at Gloucester, although that has reduced over the years due to the growth in instrument traffic and helicopters, particularly when crossing runways are in use. It's set tactically by the Tower controller these days, based on all of the above. The biggest limiting factor is cr@p RT. If it isn't crisp and concise, you'll end up with go-arounds. I think I've given 'report final, number 8' before but 4 or 5 is more common on busy days.
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By foxmoth
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1376984
The biggest limiting factor is cr@p RT.


That certainly does not help, but I have seen very busy non radio circuits, but then IMHO pilots who are used to operating non radio usually have a high level of awareness about where other aircraft are and how to achieve proper separation and I would say that is actually the limiting factor, with properly trained and experienced pilots in the circuit it should be possible to manage with 7 ,8 or even more, unfortunately most do not have the training or ability to seperate themselves properly!
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By Talkdownman
#1376985
How can an uncontrolled aerodrome such as Blackbushe be permitted to control the capacity of its circuit?
By AlanM
#1376987
As TDM says - how can a FISO unit do this? In Class G?

Seems a but overkill. If the flying club here asked for 5 in the circuit it could be done; left hand and right hand ccts integrated with Airbus size inbounds and outbounds.

TDM and Chevron can probably still remember the RAE days; when I got
To Blackbushe South International we had a 1-11, Tornado, Cherokee and Tiger Moth in the cct.

If 4 xC150s are too tricky we are all in trouble
#1376988
4 for training seems quite sensible to me, most RAF elementary operations have 4 in circuit with 1 joining / departing as a limit. I cannot see how 7 or 8 aircraft could be in a proper sized circuit safely or without all sorts of disruption to training.
By AlanM
#1376990
Training airfields like we had in the RAF with 4 JPs in the CCT are a world apart from four light aircraft.

4x first solos would be an understandable limit

BLINKY-BUSHE is now a Bizjet airfield it would appear. I hope none of those pesky 90kt machines get in the way......
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By Julius Seizure
#1376991
AlanM wrote:[...]
BLINKY-BUSHE is now a Bizjet airfield it would appear. I hope none of those pesky 90kt machines get in the way......


It's entirely possible that I'll be in one of those pesky machines! :)

JS.
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By Talkdownman
#1376993
Balliol wrote:most RAF elementary operations have 4 in circuit

With ATC, maybe, but what about without ATC?
By AlanM
#1376994
Ah well minimum speed in the cct is now 125kts. Pesky machines be warned!

AIP-EGBLINKY-1-2.3.4 refers

So, instead of 6 in the relative safety of an ATZ, are the other aircraft going to be held outside that sanctity and left fending for themself until one leaves the cct?
By Balliol
#1376995
Talkdownman wrote:
Balliol wrote:most RAF elementary operations have 4 in circuit

With ATC, maybe, but what about without ATC?


Vigilant VGS (mil air ground) have same limit
By AlanM
#1376996
Maybe it is interesting to note that pilots like the idea of having no more than 4 in the cct and controllers think it a weird concept.

Thin end of the wedge. Good luck with that
#1376997
TDM,

Blackbushe holds an Ordinary Licence and clause 1 states "The aerodrome is licensed for use only by the licence holder and by persons specifically authorised by him".

Therefore the licensee can set any conditions that he/she thinks fit. The FISOs cannot set a limit but can do so when they are acting under instructions from the licensee.