Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
User avatar
By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1376636
Are you sure it wasn't created because the number of countries within the JAA exceeded more than double the number of EU countries at the time (15), thereby allowing EU countries voting as a block to be outvoted?
User avatar
By Smaragd
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1376663
joe-fbs wrote:Try NCO.IDE.A.170 in EU 800 / 2013. That is the regulation. There is also AMC and GM somewhere but they aren't the law.

Thanks joe-fbs. The NCO seems clear - but the Netherlands require a fixed ELT! So is that a formal national divergence from EU regulation?
User avatar
By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1376667
Smaragd wrote:So is that a formal national divergence from EU regulation?


Knowing the EU/EASA, it's maybe a requirement for all, and it's the rest of us which have an exemption in place to not require it...
User avatar
By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1377000
Does this exemption apply anywhere in EASA-land or an individual states over-ride it with their own requirements?
By fhl206
#1377127
Having to fly within the rules and regulations of licence, airspace, and state of registration, I don't think this allows G register aircraft to ignore the requirements of other states. I.e. you'd still need a fixed ELT for the Netherlands.
By fhl206
#1377241
I was under the impression (in UK airspace) you only had to carry ADF if the instrument approach procedure you intended to use called for it. Was there not an exemption for that back in 2011 or 13?
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1377255
Rod1 wrote:"Not a requirement for LAA Aircraft (permit)"

This is a dangerous assumption. I was ramp checked in France a few years ago and the DGAC guys were very thorough. Checked everything – all fine - then asked to see my PLB. I fly a permit aircraft, so said I did not think it was a requirement. The answer was that French permit aircraft are not required to have one but that this only applied to the listed French permit categorises. Fortunately I had a PLB!

Rod1


I don't think that is correct. The AIC is clear and the abbreviations used to describe the different classes of permit aircraft do not specify that they must be French or national. Your MCR obviously has a "Restricted airworthiness certificate for kit-built aircraft", so an ELT or PLB is only recommended. To suggest otherwise would be like claiming that a UK microlight is not a ULM.
https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/dossier/aicfrancea/AIC_A_2008_10_EN.pdf
Last edited by patowalker on Wed May 27, 2015 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
By Rodger_Wilco
#1377546
So what's the point of an ELT in Holland if you fly something too slow to set it off if you crash ?

Do they require you to carry a hammer so after the accident you can hit your ELT with it to set it off ?

Alternatively , how about carrying a PLB and taping it to the yoke. That way if you crash hard you can head but the on switch and urn it on AUTOMATICALLY !
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1377571
Nobody has been able to explain to me why the ELT requirement in the Netherlands is set out in a Series B AIC, normally used for 'local' regulations, rather than the Series A, which apply to all.

While AIC-B 07/08 refers explicitly to ICAO regulations

1 ICAO ANNEX 6
The mandatory carriage and operation of 406 MHz ELTs is described in the ICAO Annex 6 - Operation of Aircraft. The technical requirements are described in Annex 10 - Aeronautical Telecommunications Volume III.


AIC-A 16/02 permiis non-ICAO compliant amateur built aircraft to operate under the conditions and limitations set by the CAA of the country of registry.

Amateur built aircraft, registered in an ECAC country are given a general permission to use the airspace of the Netherlands (FIR Amsterdam) under certain conditions on a temporary basis. This is to facilitate international meetings, fly-ins, demonstrations or other recreational purposes.
The conditions are the following:
The Civil Aviation Authority of the country of registry has issued a non ICAO CofA, a permit to fly, or any other document permitting the operation of the aircraft;
The operating conditions and limitations set by Civil Aviation Authority of the country of registry are applicable whilst operating in the airspace of the Netherlands.


I reckon that means my Eurostar SL does not need an ELT. :D
By dmatlock41
#1390340
FWIW I've installed a 406 Mhz ELT in the plane. I think it makes sense….
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1390347
dmatlock41 wrote:FWIW I've installed a 406 Mhz ELT in the plane. I think it makes sense….


No it doesn't but carrying a portable registered to the aircraft does.
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1390379
Yes. They would have to look closely at the UK Distress and Security Beacon Database Report to find it was a PLB, and it helps if you carry that in an A4 envelope labeled ELT in large letters. :D