Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By jollyrog
#1420460
I don't think so. The LARS units are all clearly shown in the AIP, with a map (which shows the holes too), so there's not really an excuse.

ENR 6.1.6.3

Essex Radar are not on the map or the list.
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By JonathanB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1420474
I don't know why they can't put more boundaries on that map like they have for Farnborough and Plymouth East/West. Might make it a bit more obvious as as it stands it's full of overlaps.
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By Gertie
#1420515
jollyrog wrote:Essex Radar are not on the map or the list.

Neither are some military and civilian airfields who actually seem to quite like you to talk to them; at least they're very helpful when you do. You need local knowledge as well as that chart ... or you call up people to see what the score is, as that "muppet" is reported to have done.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1420557
The whole dog's breakfast of LARS RMZ and TMZ is a complete mess. It stems from the desire of NATS to avoid delivering any services outside controlled airspace which in turn is driven by its financial targets.

This pervades all sorts of places where the next quarter's numbers are all that matters.

Unless and until we get to a point where the world is not run by illiterate bean counters we are stuck with it :twisted:
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By Talkdownman
#1420629
Gertie wrote:
jollyrog wrote:Essex Radar are not on the map or the list.

Neither are some military and civilian airfields who actually seem to quite like you to talk to them; at least they're very helpful when you do. You need local knowledge as well as that chart ... or you call up people to see what the score is, as that "muppet" is reported to have done.

Why call a discrete CAS ATC frequency for LARS? Agencies such as EssexRadar, Heathrow Radar, Thames Radar etc have no LARS remit. It simply wastes the ANSP's time and aircrew time. (If, by score, you mean a football match or cricket score then that is a different matter…)

I agree that the LARS boundaries could be better defined rather than the ill-though-out, simplistic, 'one size doesn't fit all' radii (for instance Farnborough are not keen on working LARS traffic west of the A34 or north of the M4)
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By Flasheart
#1420639
When I was a PPL student flying entirely in the South West, I created this monstrosity to guide me to who I should be talking to where. I didn't use it all that much, but it looks pretty and that's 90% of the battle.

Image
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By matthew_w100
#1420662
That is most excellent. What format is it in? So that it can be brought up to date?
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By Flasheart
#1420671
I created it within CATIA (CAD software, guess the industry I work in!), if there's a more up to date map of LARS I could update it. I then saved it as PDF and JPEG.
If it's of use, I can create a new one and post again? Let me know.
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By JonathanB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1420674
It's in the AIP at ENR 6.1.6.3 as posted by jollyrog.

I have forwarded the idea to AIS as I'm not sure who else would be best placed to do this - probably the amount of co-operation between all the providers that would be required to make it official will make it a logistical nightmare!
Last edited by JonathanB on Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By jollyrog
#1420675
Perhaps colour tint the segments to indicate those that are not available at weekends.
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By Talkdownman
#1420686
Flasheart wrote:I created this monstrosity to guide me to who I should be talking to where

I think that is excellent, and one of the most constructive posts I have seen on this forum. I am most impressed, for a change, and that is saying something. Quite heartening that someone somewhere has the savvy to be able to do it. Far, far better than what DAP has produced. Wakey-Wakey DAP and nats! I shall even print it off for my (best) kneeboard...
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By jollyrog
#1420687
Perhaps when the new version is available and Manston is removed, we can send it to the Daily Mail and point out that whilst there's blanket coverage over Cornwall, Devon and Somerset, the South East corner of the UK where all the drug smuggling and illegal immigrant flights enter is not covered by LARS.

Perhaps then we'll get NATS funded LARS from Lydd or something.
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By ChampChump
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1420725
Of course all the drug smuggling and people smuggling will stop as soon as there's joined up LARS coverage. Well, the Daily Wail might buy it.

:roll:
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By kanga
#1420729
jollyrog wrote:Perhaps colour tint the segments to indicate those that are not available at weekends.


.. as used to be true of many of the early mil LARS providers, eg Shawbury, Valley; which I had not realised when setting off on my first weekend jaunt thither... :oops:
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By matthew_w100
#1420730
JonathanB wrote:It's in the AIP at ENR 6.1.6.3 as posted by jollyrog.


Thatg one is hard to interpret as it doesn't show boundaries between zones in any way. It is also rather short of geographic reference points. Flying in the badlands north of London it's quite hard to know exactly where you are on it.

Flasheart's is much better.