Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.

Did your examiner properly explain it was for a licence and class rating?

Yes
14
42%
No
19
58%
User avatar
By Sir Morley Steven
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1302163
I have so many pilots (nearly all) who come in to me to "revalidate their licence" I wonder if it was properly explained to them at the outset.
User avatar
By Rob P
#1302164
What's a 'Skill Test'. Is that anything like a GFT?

Rob P
User avatar
By SteveC
#1302169
Your question does not make sense.
By Meowwoof
#1302170
I have probably been guilty of talking about revalidating my 'licence' when I mean my class rating. Then again I still 'tape' TV programmes when what I actually mean is that I record them digitally onto some form of medium.

In some cases it would seem to be verbal inexactitude rather than a fundamental lack of understanding.
User avatar
By Cookie
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1302171
Did your examiner properly explain it was for a licence and class rating?


Isn't that an instructor's responsibility since it forms part of the PPL training syllabus under 'Air Law'? The candidates present themselves for test with a Course Completion certificate to say that all aspects of the ground and flight training syllabus have been completed.

Cookie
User avatar
By flybymike
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1302195
Rob P wrote:What's a 'Skill Test'. Is that anything like a GFT?

Rob P


Or an FHT?

( Old buggers of the world unite.)
User avatar
By Rod1
#1302196
flybymike wrote:
Rob P wrote:What's a 'Skill Test'. Is that anything like a GFT?

Rob P


Or an FHT?

( Old buggers of the world unite.)


:D :D :D :D :D
User avatar
By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1302206
After 14 years of class ratings, there are still hobby pilots who have been through the process 7 or 8 times with one rating and still simply do not understand the rating and licence are different, and usually it is because they only have one of each. It is only when you have two or more ratings and one licence it becomes clearer.
I think the basic problem can be traced back to the JAA committee - deliberations for about 7 years on expenses and it seems none of them (or none of them with any influence on the committee) understood that private pilots are NOT all temporarily paused in their journey to the commercial flight deck via a modular route, so there was never any thought of actually explaining what was going on to the guy out in the field who was never going any further than flying his spamcan or historic aircraft.
Every "group A" hobby pilot who ONLY ever flew "group A" knew they needed a stamp every 13 months and that was 'it' so there was no real difference between the licence itself and adding a stamp, it was a simple system for simple flying, the licence and the stamp were integrated, to the pilots, it was just a licence which needed a stamp in the log book every 13 months, nothing else. Then JAA took that simple thing away and gave them something called a class rating to get signed in the licence every two years rather than a stamp in the log book, but no-one bothered to explain to them this was actually a sort of commercial-pilot concept pushed down to the lower levels and that some people actually had more than one rating. If you only have one rating yourself, and only ever had one rating, the fact that there is a difference between a licence and a rating simply never occurs to you, in the same way as previously the stamp was just 'part of the licence needing to be signed', the rating is just some page in a licence that needs to be signed, with no obvious difference.
Then they had another brilliant idea - make the licence only last 5 years and the simple rating only 2 years, just to expose the people who weren't following their thoughts.
I'm sure if I went back to the JAA committee of 1999 and said 'this 75 year old pilot who flies a Tiger Moth and has only ever flown a Tiger Moth doesn't understand difference between a licence and a rating as he only has one of each, so keeps confusing the two words', they would say 'well don't worry, it will all become much clearer to him when he gets an I/R and a commercial type rating and starts flying for an airline'.
Then being committee types, they were nerdishly interested in the difference between the words 'revalidation' and 'renewal', not realising no-one outside their committee was the least bit interested as it didn't really matter - everyone outside the committee had either a date that had expired or a date that had not expired, but either way, whatever it was called, they simply wanted to have another two years flying please.
By allout
#1302211
That was from the heart, Irv,
..... as well as being spot on.
User avatar
By foxmoth
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1302215
I think Irv has it right - and can be summed up in the phrase "who gives a Damn?" :twisted:
User avatar
By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1302219
or at private flying level "JAA, not fit for purpose, EASA, not fit for purpose"
I hope everyone is feeding back into the EASA Basic Regulation opportunity "Get the **** out of private flying" - ie: who cares if a C150 flying for hobby reasons only is piloted by someone with a 1994 ppl or a 2014 lapl or PPL? No-one! If they have to tighten something, for heavens sake understand the difference between commercial flights and private flights, and regulate on flights ie: what the aircraft is being used for, not the certification of the aircraft.

...and if they really can't bring themselves to back off that far in one step, make it "Get the **** out of private flying within national airspace" -ie: C150, private flying, always ok within national airspace on national licences - but I'd rather they went the whole way than this halfway step.
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By Pete L
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1302231
The substantive difference in the "new" system is the biennial flight with an instructor. I think that's been a good thing.

Under the 5hr, 13 month P1 system, that wasn't necessary. Old RAF hands with 20000 hours would have been perfectly safe. Others, possibly not.
By Balliol
#1302246
But does a LAPL have class ratings.....?