UK to Alicante VFR. Route advice being sought please.

[James Chan]

With the San Sebastian / Pamplona route we are a bit concerned about the heavily restricted airspace along the French coast south of La Rochelle.

I've flown ENSAC BTZ SSN at FL65 (VFR) and experienced no issues.

[mikeparsons84]

Slightly different trip but I went

Shoreham > caen > Lé mans > Bergerac > Perpignan > Mahon

[Rob L]

LFAT LE TOUQUET-PARIS PLAGE - ROU
ROU - LGL
LGL - LFRM LE MANS-ARNAGE
LFRM LE MANS-ARNAGE - LFBI POITIERS-BIARD
LFBI POITIERS-BIARD - LFBE BERGERAC-ROUMANIERE
LFBE BERGERAC-ROUMANIERE - GAI
GAI - LFMK CARCASSONNE-SALVAZA
LFMK CARCASSONNE-SALVAZA - LFMP PERPIGNAN-RIVESALTES
LFMP PERPIGNAN-RIVESALTES - LEGE GIRONA
LEGE GIRONA - LERS REUS
LERS REUS - LEVC VALENCIA-MANISES
LEVC VALENCIA-MANISES - LEMU MUCHAMIEL

It looks to me that you are planning too many stops (you don't say which are stops, or routing points, apart from Rouen, L'Aigle and GAI[?]).

Points of order, in no necessary sequence:

Bergerac is a lovely place to stop over. Carcassonne is also a good overnight stop. Also, from Carcassonne to Girona (DCT) is low-level, sub-2500' and avoids the dog-leg of Perpignan & its airspace.
Girona is expensive (June 2012) at €190.00 land + manadatory handling (less than 600kg).

There is a VFR route to pass Barcelona inland overhead Sabadell, very GA friendly. No need to speak to Barcelona.

Castellon (LECN) is a good stopping off point down the Spanish coast.

San Sebastian has parking issues (so they say).

Make sure you have fuel arranged / confirmed at your Spanish airfields. Take cash for the French fill-ups, and make sure in advance they will take cash (many are Total only).

[Rob L]

Empuriabrava

Not a good idea to plan to either overfly or to land there, it's one of the busiest skydiving location in Europe and they will say Non, Niet and sod off (in Spanish, of course). FPLs will be rejected.

[cessnafixedwing]

It looks to me that you are planning too many stops
Carcassonne is also a good overnight stop. Also, from Carcassonne to Girona (DCT) is low-level, sub-2500' and avoids the dog-leg of Perpignan & its airspace.

Thanks Rob L.
With 4 hours endurance we are planning legs of a maximum 3 hours. We are planning 4 fuel stops (subject to confirming availability of fuel nearer the time) all other fields are turning points. Our intended stops are:
Day 1
Le Touquet
Poitiers
Carcassonne

Day 2
Sabadell

Re "Carcassonne to Girona (DCT) is low-level, sub-2500' " thanks for the tip, we're waiting on the Spanish Jeppesen to arrive so at the moment am planning from SD. We'll need to look at this more closely as working from SD alone the ground between LFMK and LEGE looks to rise to just under 6,000 ft in places? It would be useful to avoid the dog-leg of Perpignan & its airspace.

Thanks for the tip re fuel, we'll make sure to obtain confirmation of availability

We'll also give Ampuriabrava a wide berth

[Bepy pilot]

Happy New Year and many thanks all for your swift and very helpful responses.

Our planned destination is Muchamiel, I originally stated Alicante to save those unacquainted with it some time. I am already reasonably familiar with that area of the Costa Blanca having previously rented a Muchamiel club C152 for a jolly along the coast.

.

I think most people who could give you sensible information would also be familiar with Muchamiel. The route I gave was based on the reasoning that you were going into Alicante and therefore expected to pay for handling at places like Girona along the way.

A couple of things to note:

As others have mentioned but worth highlighting, the availability of AVGAS in the South East of France can be patchy in the summer to say the least. Last year Carcassonne and Perpignan had periods of months where none was available to visitors although the based flying schools and club members were kept supplied. We had to fuel at Bergerac to get into Carcasonne and back to La Rochelle. I've never had to pay cash in France at any manned airfield, often if they are Total card only the operator will send someone out with the airfield's card and let you pay whatever way you want.

In Spain it can be more difficult. Following on from a VAT case a few years back, some oil companies decided not to dispense fuel unless the pilot could quote a valid VAT number. It doesn't matter how you intend to pay and the fuel is not sold VAT free, it is just how particular companies have chosen to interpret the rules. If you have the choice, BP do not do this, otherwise you will need to make arrangements with a handling agent to pay on your behalf and then pay back to them with the regular margin added. Not sure how Muchamiel handles fuel, we only go into Valencia and Alicante in that area.

Perpignan has become very quiet commercially and I have never been refused a direct transit through the airspace usually at 3500'. The coastal route depicted on the chart via a number of VRPs is usually given to microlights at 1500ish'

Girona has become extremely costly to GA, having gone from £12 to close to £200 for a visit in a single jump and I would recommend Sabadel as planned.

The route from Perpignan to Girona direct does go over some reasonably high ground but a few miles East the land falls away to sea level. We usually go Carcasonne-Perpignan Overhead-PORBU-BGR-CLE by-passing Girona just to stay out of the way of the Ryanairs and avoid being vectored all over the sky when it is busy.

On a personal preference note, I find the Jepp charts for Spain don't do the best job of depicting the Max VFR Altitudes which pepper the areas around the major airports (especially Barcelona). The official AENA chart does a much better job of this but is rubbish at depicting almost everything else, so we fly with both/SkyDemon.

[cessnafixedwing]

Slightly different trip but I went

Shoreham > caen > Lé mans > Bergerac > Perpignan > Mahon

Thanks Mike.

[cessnafixedwing]

Thanks Bepy Pilot, will check on fuel availability in France just prior to departure and adjust route as / if required and plan ahead re the VAT number in Spain.

Muchamiel has limited fuel (payable by credit card or cash) but as I am familiar with the school I should (hope) to secure confirmation that they will be able to top tanks for us on arrival.

Will look again at the Carcasonne-Perpignan Overhead-PORBU-BGR-CLE option, and will take your advice re both charts and SD.

[EggWhisk]

Hi - did a similar trip last Oct when I took 2 R44s and 6 pilots down to a private villa near Almeria. Carcassonne is a great stop - check out the restaurants in the middle of the old town, Castellon de La Plana is a fun stopover too - cafe (though it looks tatty) serves GREAT tapas - also in Castellon itself, there is a truly super restaurant called Restaurante Mediterraneo (Buenavista 46 Grao, Castellon). Ampuriabrava has always been a good stop too - don't be put off, we have flown in there in helicopters every time we have done the trip (7+ times now). Deauville very helpful, routing via the OH at Sabadell has always been stress free too. Hope you have a great trip.

[cessnafixedwing]

Many thanks EggWhisk. We'll certainly try the Carcassonne restuarants. Interesting to hear that you've never had a problem getting in to Ampuriabrava. Next time you do the trip to Almeria you might want to try the menu del dia at Muchamiel. Would be an interesting stop for you I imagine, as last time I was there it seems to have become base to a sizeable helicopter operator.