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Does one speak English?

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dweston
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Does one speak English?

Postby dweston » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:24 pm

Just seen the CAA form we need to fill out about our competence in English

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG1199.pdf

I thought this rubbish had been nailed, but no. It appears we have to submit this form to the CAA when we next have a flight with an instructor. Thankfully, we should only have to do this once - but why should we need to ??????

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THORP T211
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Postby THORP T211 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:28 pm

SO, this has to be done for everyone? My understanding now then is, when I have my 1 hr flight with an instructor in the next few weeks as part of my bi-annual renewal,I will need to have this signed????

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Vince C
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Postby Vince C » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:33 pm

There was a piece on R4's PM program about this. They played a tape of a US controller asking a pilot who spoke hardly any english if he'd been cleared onto the apron. The errant pilot kept taking this as a clearance to enter the apron.

"Negative! Hold your position! This is interrogative! A question! HAVE YOU been cleared onto the apron?"

"OK, I am cleared onto the apron".

Scary!:shock:
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Steve D
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Re: Does one speak English?

Postby Steve D » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:39 pm

[quote='dweston'] It appears we have to submit this form to the CAA when we next have a flight with an instructor. Thankfully, we should only have to do this once - but why should we need to ??????[/quote]

Just as well you can't go solo until age 16. Most of today's yoof woldn't meet the criteria on the last page, methinks.
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JonathanB
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Postby JonathanB » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:43 pm

[quote='Mike T']The clip played on the radio has been doing the rounds and originates from JFK.
<snip>
The controller was abysmal.[/quote]

I think I've heard that clip (on youtube, linked form here before) - and I agree with you Mike. He wasn't very sympathetic to the pilot.
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low&slow
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Re: Does one speak English?

Postby low&slow » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:56 pm

[quote='dweston']Just seen the CAA form we need to fill out about our competence in English

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG1199.pdf

I thought this rubbish had been nailed, but no. It appears we have to submit this form to the CAA when we next have a flight with an instructor. Thankfully, we should only have to do this once - but why should we need to ??????[/quote]

Do we need to return Page 2 as well?

Plse advise,
Perplexed

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Postby HGFC1 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:28 pm

I haven't heard that clip but I was up at ScATCC recently and heard a controller, whose English was very clear and easily understood, trying to get a foreign, commercial pilot to readback his next waypoint. The conversation went along these lines: C - Forenair 123 cleared FREDA (fictitious waypoint for this post) Flight level ..... etc ..... P - er.. cleared err ... FEELA etc ... C - Negative, cleared FREDA - Foxtrot Romeo etc ... P - er Foxtrot Echo Romeo Alpha Delta .... C- Negative - repeats waypoint letters clearly and slowly, P - repeats random selection of letters. One or two more attempts were made before he finally got it right. :pale:

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Graham P
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Re: Does one speak English?

Postby Graham P » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:01 pm

[quote='dweston']It appears we have to submit this form to the CAA when we next have a flight with an instructor.[/quote]

I think this needs to be signed by an examiner rather than an instructor so presumably you can get it signed and sent off next time you are getting your 2-year sign off done. Once done.... it is done!

I wonder when these replacement sheets for the licences are going to turn up!

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Gerard Clarke
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Postby Gerard Clarke » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:06 pm

Most of us fly on internatonally recognised licences, so what's the big deal about being asked to confirm that we are proficient in a language widely used internationally in aviation? If we fly by international rules, we can't complain if those rules are applied across the board.

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leiafee
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Postby leiafee » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:09 pm

Mike T wrote:The clip played on the radio has been doing the rounds and originates from JFK.

As someone who speaks to pilots from all over the world on a daily basis, including from the same country featured on the tape, the biggest problem was the controller not the English language skills of the pilot.

The so called controller was abysmal and seemed to be more interested in living up to some sort of macho image that they apparently like to project at JFK rather than actually dealing with the issue at hand by slowing down the delivery and using simple, standard phraseology.


Quite. I heard that clip ages ago and wanted the slap the man.

I thought confusion like that was the whole reason for using things like "departure" instead of "takeoff" and "remain outside controlled airspace" rather than "remain clear of..."

Am I missing something?
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Keef
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Postby Keef » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:09 pm

¿Qué?
Keef

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Pete S
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Postby Pete S » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:46 am

I rang the Belgrano FCL today: They are issuing all old PPL holders with grandfather rights sustificates to the level 4. It will take several weeks to get them out. If you need one urgently, bell 'em and they'll send you one.

All newly issued licences get issued with a level 6 if the examiner has filled in the appropriate box.

At the moment none of the examiners are trained in language proficiency and there is no CAA/JAA/EASA list of approved examiners/language schools for those that get level3. So the signing of the form referred to above will be a joke.

The level 4 will have to be renewed after three years so that gives everybody the time to have the examiner at their next flight review to sign the form so a one and only level 6 can be issued and that's an end to it.

more bleedin bureaucracy but the level4 which will arrive soon is not charged AIUI.A level 4 is all you need and actual level is not marked in licence.
Still doesn't answer the FAA/piggyback conundrum: I'm saving that one up for later.

Peter
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vintage ATCO
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Postby vintage ATCO » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:48 am

HGFC1 wrote:I haven't heard that clip but I was up at ScATCC recently and heard a controller, whose English was very clear and easily understood, trying to get a foreign, commercial pilot to readback his next waypoint.


When I was flying in Scotland with 2Ds the Scottish controller couldn't understand my pronunciation of the reporting point BRUCE and I had to spell it out phonetically. :oops: Perhaps I should have said 'G'day, Bruce'?

And I have a piece of paper to say I can speak proper! :)
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johnm
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Postby johnm » Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:10 am

I speak English very well but not when I'm flying. Then I use some strange dialect that is apparently documented in a text book published by the CAA I think its called CAP 413 8)
Extremely grumpy PPL/IR

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Fishhead
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Postby Fishhead » Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:23 am

It appears we have to submit this form to the CAA when we next have a flight with an instructor.


Not unless the Instructor is also an Examiner who has himself been assessed as Level 6
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1688/Language ... miners.pdf

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG1199.pdf

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